Open-ended discussion on creation and design

[Putmalk]

This post may came off as rambling a bit, as there was no real singular point, I pretty much just did stream of consciousness.

Well, I've been working on my castlebase areas, drawing tons of inspiration from rainy hall and old archives (pretty much the only hallway-type castlebase settings in Amnesia). I decided to use curtains and paintings to align most of the walls, mixing both wood and stone floors to add variety to the sections and make them a little more noticeable. Although, this section I just designed was intended to give a long-winded, claustrophobic experience to the player as they traverse it.

I was going to have the player just mindlessly walk into the entrance hall, but I've decided against it...I'm going to make this interesting, forcing the player to solve an intricate puzzle in order to advance. It's not complicated, but I want to draw inspiration from Tomb Raider and make it very platform heavy.

One of the things I noticed in custom stories is the very linear, point A to point B type of mapping. I prefer it differently, I prefer each area to have their own signifance, and for it to feel like you're actually journeying through it, sorta like hubs. For example, you enter map A. Map A leads to Map B and Map C, but the door to Map C is locked and you have to find a key in Map B in order to proceed. Map A is very large, and traveling through it is made more enjoyable through a series of events...I even like to add interactivity to some areas, such as touching a bed will trigger a flashback from your past or something.

Map A isn't something I would consider a hub, because there's only two door ways, but the experience is much more varied than just going from A -> B -> C, since you actually go from A -> B -> A -> C, and maybe the second time you enter A, something new happens that didn't before?

Here's an example of what I mean:

[Adrianis]

Agree with that layout plan, but make sure the extra journeying through previous areas is varied enough to justify it - it shouldn't feel like backtracking.

Also, in my opinion if you are planning on having a puzzle blocking the players progress, make sure it is either easy or well explained, or more preferably both. If it is complicated and not well explained, and if it cannot be avoided, then you risk losing some players.

[Putmalk]

Welp, I made a feedback thread so if people want to discuss specific design or custom stories in development they can do it here: http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thread-14657.html

Don't worry, I created that little "Tomb Raider" puzzle. It's nothing hard, very obvious, and you just jump from one support beam to another in order to reach the top of the broken stairs.

[Cranky Old Man]

I don't get why people think that hubs and spokes are so special. It's been around at least since Hexen back in '95, and while it's fun to backtrack to a familiar area to get a sense of orientation, I think that the environment and gameplay should shape any backtracking or hubs, and not the other way around. When you play Amnesia, and you go "Finally, we're back in the hub. Nothing happens in the hub, so I can rest here." then compare that to how an actual hub of an evil fortress would be. The monster is roaming around in the spokes, but if we just left him in area A, the hub doors are somehow preventing him from entering the hub, then how come he's suddenly in area B? Did he teleport? Are there more than one? (This goes for custom story monsters as well, if they have peaceful hubs.)
Most large buildings have some kind of hubs naturally - just don't force them into the game for the sake of having some "superior" sort of gameplay.

[DRedshot]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I've read a few posts, here's my opinion!

I think the most important part of map design is getting the lighting right. Once you've got a room with perfect lighting, it makes it a LOT easier to add details to other parts of the room. I usually make my maps one room at a time, finishing the scripts in one room before even starting the next, as opposed to making a 'shell' out of static objects, and filling the entities and scripts in later. This keeps me more interested for a longer amount of time, and prevents rushed rooms towards the end.

Adding to Putmalk's point about linear maps, I like to include player decisions in my maps. They should be allowed to picklock the door, or use a sledgehammer and smash it through, or take a slightly more risky alternate path. However, the player might already have broken the picklock on another object beforehand. Giving each puzzle at least two solutions keeps scripting down while giving the player choices. More choices also gives more room for error when solving a puzzle, making it a little bit easier to figure out.

I have my rooms linked in a triangle, so Room A can go to room B or C, but they cannot go back once they have made their decision.

I just found that this way the player feels like they are making a choice by deciding which path to choose. Each route has decisions and advantages/disadvantages.

EDIT:

There was something I wanted to point out, but I think it might have already been mentioned. - Attention to detail! I love exploring rooms, looking through all the drawers and actually finding (relevent) things. Maybe finding a note which isn't part of the main plot, but is a side story, or a little easter egg. Even better is when one of these random objects triggers a scare, because hardly anyone does it.

Also, I found that placing your script areas earlier than usual and adding a timer delay makes them much more unpredictable.

[Putmalk]

(04-09-2012 11:56 PM)Cranky Old Man Wrote:  I don't get why people think that hubs and spokes are so special. It's been around at least since Hexen back in '95, and while it's fun to backtrack to a familiar area to get a sense of orientation, I think that the environment and gameplay should shape any backtracking or hubs, and not the other way around. When you play Amnesia, and you go "Finally, we're back in the hub. Nothing happens in the hub, so I can rest here." then compare that to how an actual hub of an evil fortress would be. The monster is roaming around in the spokes, but if we just left him in area A, the hub doors are somehow preventing him from entering the hub, then how come he's suddenly in area B? Did he teleport? Are there more than one? (This goes for custom story monsters as well, if they have peaceful hubs.)
Most large buildings have some kind of hubs naturally - just don't force them into the game for the sake of having some "superior" sort of gameplay.

Fair point. Watch the video and view how I did it. When you need to backtrack, the goal is to add events to make the process not as repetitive and dull (also done in Amnesia, the shadow always closes in on you when you re-enter the Entrance and Back Halls).

And this is about having "superior" gameplay, that should be the goal of every designer. I often find myself bored of very linear, A -> B -> C -> D -> E stories, I think it contributes very little the atmosphere and exploration of the game.

Also, I do not consider level doors blocking monsters and supposed "teleportation" to be anything we can change - that's how it was designed, we can't help it. I also think it's unfair to criticize and gameplay based off of loading screens and other stuff that protects you from monsters, it's natural territory with games and especially with Amnesia.

[Ablon]

Nice discussion but i have nothing to share with you because i am new here. Some of your discussions are good for me because i have started design working recently and i am in very basic level.

[Robosprog]

Incase anyone reads this and has not yet seen my 2 mini essays (which i still need to write the third and fourth) They are here.