Some personal thoughts on piracy (warning - long post)

[Frontcannon]

(11-05-2010 04:07 PM)Scraper Wrote:  Sure. There's always someone who makes them.

It's merely a definition problem. Piracy has nothing to do with theft. Theft removes the original.

But who am I arguing with, this thread will convince neither side.. (does that make sense?)

[Scraper]

It's a crime neverthless.

[BeefJerky]

(11-05-2010 05:03 PM)Scraper Wrote:  If you have payed for the game before playing it (even the most minimum price) and it does not work the way it supposed to, I don't see problem with that.

Good. Then you won't mind if I test out your game first, too.

Developers did this to themselves when they started releasing half-finished, unplayable garbage and threw it up on the shelf at EB for $60.

"B-b-but you can play the demo!" No, you can't. Do you ever see a businessman try to sell ERP software by bringing the full package and allowing the customer to operate it? No. He gives a presentation that he controls and rehearsed beforehand to carefully avoid all the bugs that will blow up in front of the client.

Did you people forget the last 2 decades of the history of game developers? I can go online right now in a game I pay $15 a month for and show you at least three bugs that crash the game to desktop that have been there for over a month. Hell, just look at New Vegas. It's pathetic.

Sorry, developers don't get to throw the Jesus flag down on this one. It doesn't justify downloading and playing the full game, but it does justify taking a sneak peek past only what you want me to see in your demo.

[Scraper]

(11-05-2010 05:23 PM)BeefJerky Wrote:  

(11-05-2010 05:03 PM)Scraper Wrote:  If you have payed for the game before playing it (even the most minimum price) and it does not work the way it supposed to, I don't see problem with that.

Good. Then you won't mind if I test out your game first, too.

Our game? Hold on here.
You might note that what I say, doesn't represent Frictional Games in ANY way. I'm not part of Frictional Games' developing team, neither publisher, I'm just a forum moderator.

Also, I didn't say that I accept downloading illegaly game BEFORE paying for it.
That's why there's demo, which you can download if you want to test the game.

If you pay for the game, and it doesn't work the way it was supposed to, for example, it complains something missing and reinstalling and patches do not work, this case, I don't take it as a pirated game, even though it is...
In this case, I will look it more from a point of morality.

[Spooder Wekd]

(11-05-2010 04:58 PM)Tottel Wrote:  Spooder: that's a much better comparison, looking at it that way, there is indeed no way to justify piracy.
Although I can say that I pirated one game that I don't feel sorry for at all: Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, simply because I bought the retail version and the anti-piracy software was prohibiting me from simply installing the game. So, I downloaded a cracked version. Is this piracy? Not in my opinion.

Downloading a pirate version if a disk gets scratched or if it does not work properly is fine. I see no problem with it... There is a difference between stealing and fixing.

[BeefJerky]

(11-05-2010 05:36 PM)Scraper Wrote:  Our game? Hold on here.
You might note that what I say, doesn't represent Frictional Games in ANY way. I'm not part of Frictional Games' developing team, neither publisher, I'm just a forum moderator.

Also, I didn't say that I accept downloading illegaly game BEFORE paying for it.
That's why there's demo, which you can download if you want to test the game.

I was talking to the editorial you. I'm well aware you don't work for Frictional, and I know you don't support downloading before buying. I never implied that. The point of my post was to point out that a lot of people, given the history of developers over the last 20 years, don't see a demo as a fair representation of the product they're considering buying.

[Scraper]

In case you wonder why I edited your post:
I edited my previous post so I updated yours with now correct quote.

[BeefJerky]

(11-05-2010 05:03 PM)Scraper Wrote:  [quote]
If you pay for the game, and it doesn't work the way it was supposed to, for example, it complains something missing and reinstalling and patches do not work, this case, I don't take it as a pirated game, even though it is...
In this case, I will look it more from a point of morality.

If your game is a bug-ridden mess the moral thing to do would be to give me my $60 dollars back. But that stopped happening a long time ago. I remember when EB and Gamestop had return policies that would result in buggy/crappy games going right where they belong: the $1 bargain bin.

What do you get now? No return policy and forums filled with idiots defending the developer by saying retarded things like, "These things take time" and moderators deleting posts with legitimate complaints.

Devs want to have their cake and eat it, too. Tough.

[Urrah]

For God's sake, the game's $20. Twenty f**king dollars. Amnesia's so cheap I actually feel a bit like I've stolen it, when I finish uni in a few weeks and get a job I'm thinking of making donation to FG (sorry to boast about this, I'm just trying to make a point), imo it's worth AT LEAST $50 (combined with the endless potential of custom stories and mod tools it's probably more like $80).

Don't go to McDonalds this weekend, sell those golf clubs you never use, only fill your car's tank up 90%. There's no excuse not to pay for Amnesia (especially since you can pay by phone). Short of being homeless, pretty much anyone can afford $20.

Nospheratu, I don't think you're a bad guy but imo your morality is a little warped. Regardless of whether you consider a product to be worth your money you still have to pay for it. I might be a tiny bit more forgiving if you were pirating an Activision or EA game, but the fact you were ripping off an indie is, imo, pretty bad.

(Seeing as everyone keeps using metaphors) it's like if you steal a camera, take a few pictures, decide that it isn't worth buying, take the film out and put it back. Although you may not have used the product extensively, the fact of the matter is that whether you steal for a minute or an eternity is irrelevant, you still have stolen.

I know you said that you've paid for Amnesia by phone, so thank you for that, but I would encourage you not to pirate anymore games (sorry if I sound like your mum). If you're interested in a game then buy it, if it's crap then don't buy that developers next game (or at least wait for reviews). Vote with your wallet, not your morality of whether a game is worth paying for.

Anyway, good on you for doing the right thing.

[Scraper]

(11-05-2010 05:57 PM)BeefJerky Wrote:  

(11-05-2010 05:03 PM)Scraper Wrote:  If you pay for the game, and it doesn't work the way it was supposed to, for example, it complains something missing and reinstalling and patches do not work, this case, I don't take it as a pirated game, even though it is...
In this case, I will look it more from a point of morality.

If your game is a bug-ridden mess the moral thing to do would be to give me my $60 dollars back. But that stopped happening a long time ago. I remember when EB and Gamestop had return policies that would result in buggy/crappy games going right where they belong: the $1 bargain bin.

What do you get now? No return policy and forums filled with idiots defending the developer by saying retarded things like, "These things take time" and moderators deleting posts with legitimate complaints.

Hah, this sounds like EA.
I bought Need for Speed: Shift for 50€ and it didn't even work well even though my computer is better than what they show as recommended on the back of the box.